Total Racing Europe - SEAT Leon Supercup Championship [Discussion]

I will be supplicating the gods of aero damage this week in the hope that they bless my car before Silverstone.

Just a suggestion - Why not try a quick 2 lap experiment at the next race & everyone start the race with the long external veiw so they can see more around them? I must admit that I use the bumper view & this does not always give you a great idea of who is around you & how close they are.

EighteeN O FivE wrote:Just a suggestion - Why not try a quick 2 lap experiment at the next race & everyone start the race with the long external veiw so they can see more around them? I must admit that I use the bumper view & this does not always give you a great idea of who is around you & how close they are.

That could work, nice suggestion.

I'm aware the past three weeks races haven't run so smoothly. But surely there are positives to be taken away from Friday night? For example, the maturity when lapping was something I picked up on, whilst there was some confusion sometimes, it seemed as though people did move out of the way when required.

I don't recall a turn 1 incident in race 1, but I know there were quite a few bumps, and I'll hold my hand up and say I caused a few. Please understand they weren't on purpose.

We're getting there guys, I know accidents happen, nobody has the perfect race every race, but there's a simple thing to remember. There are other people on the track too. It's not a hotlapping session, it's racing. Without being too patronising or cheesy, it was Aryton Senna who said "if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Granted, the gap has to be there, and yes it's only a game, but I think it still applies.

I'm not having a go, I have no right to point fingers, because if you look at race 1 this weekend, I'm to blame for wrecking at least one persons race.

I'd like to say this week was better than last, but that's a subjective opinion. I'm sure there are people who feel differently.


Anyway, as for the blue SEAT in race 2 - It was a friend of somebodies, but sadly I've forgotten who. I figured I'd allow them to race with us and invite them to the club later. This person didn't complete the race anyway, so it's not something to worry about. If they wish to join in next week, and so on then they may need to look into their connection, (could be solved with a simple router off-on.) and of course have the official livery.

On that note, it's nice to see people adding personal touched to their cars, (even though I said leave them alone ). But, I don't mind - As long as the car stays fundamentally the same, I've got nothing to complain about

All in all, I think things are going relatively well so far. A couple of bugs here and there, but we're getting through it. At the end of the day, we're doing this for fun. But I understand a couple of problems here and there somewhat diminish that aspect.

However, it's the halfway point next week, marking the end of the European leg. But it's a shame some people will miss it

If not before, I'll see you there

It is nice that you hold your finger up and say you have caused some damage but it doesn't solve any problems.
And I don't give a damn on things Ayrton Senna said. As well as I don't care about any smart sentence Mao, Santa Claus or the Queen ever said. Ayrton Senna died in his car, maybe the gap he saw in his very last corner was to small or the gap between his ears had been too big...

I agree that it is racing and not hotlapping, but as you said there are others on the track too. There are two choices now. You can treat them with regard or we can call the series officially as destruction derby or last man standing race.
Surely nobody forces incidents on purpose and I don't expect nobody to race like a nun. Racing hardly is absolutely fine but it is not ok that half of the grid has their cars damaged after the first corner because we are all thinking we are little Ayrton Sennas and the 20" gap is enough to go through with a SEAT.

Last week my car was wrecked in both races, this week the car of Leonardo. Next week maybe the one of Jim or Simon or maybe yours. Does it have to go this way or is there a possibility to brake a little bit earlier as usual and to let some space?
You are right, we all do it for fun but be sure the fun will change into frustration as long as people's races are ruined.

Now that we have established people aren't crashing into each other on purpose, why don't we just turn the damage off? Then if there is a crash (which Im sure there will be every race no matter what we do) hopefully all that will happen is a few seconds of the current lap are lost, but after you can carry on with a undamage car.

I think the biggest problem is having 20+ laps to go with a totally damaged car that can't be repaired in the pits either.

As long as we try to avoid crashes where possible, and if you do knock someone off the track, let them have their place back, then I think it will work better without damage.

i agree with jim here , no one intentionally crashes into someone else , we all want the best start and there will always be incidents going into the first corner , sim damage does make you think about how to preserve your car but only once you are up and lapping during the race , but if like me you suffer 100% aero at the beginning of the race it can seem pretty demoralising running 4 to 5 seconds a lap slower , which i think we have all experienced so far in this series.Maybe we turn sim damage off for the next round just to see if it helps.............this will then give everyone a chance to run a full race undamaged which could actually make it a lot closer through the field.........but a warning that penalties will be awarded for deliberate damage , not something that anyone in this club would do !
So maybe give it a go and see what happens

What about limited damage? So you are still responsible for your car and for others, but it has less effect. Without any damage those who are driving regardless will even be rewarded and be allowed even more to try overtaking experiments.

I've tested limited damage against the AI ( especially against my "most liked" driver M. Rossi ) and with fully ruined aero and a yellow engine you loose 20 km/h (12 to 13 mph) of topspeed. With only the rear end aero damaged you loose 3 to 5 mph. So the one who bumps into your back will have a bigger disadvantage than you what only is fair.

In my eyes awarding penalties is the last solution because it will only force disharmonies and discussions like "Why me and not X, X did the same and bla bla bla"

I think Jim, Blue and Sim have valid points. We included damage to encourage people to watch out on track, but sadly it also effects other people too, as innocent bystanders for example.

I think I'm leaning more towards Blue here, moving down to limited damage may be the better solution since there's still a disadvantage to driving wrecklessy. Not that people are doing this on purpose, accidents happen, it's racing and we know this. I don't want to have to start handing out penalties, that's no fun for me and no fun for anyone who receives one. Plus it'll only cause arguments and what-not.

So, I think the best thing to do is tone the damage down and see how we get on. If it still causes problems and such, then we'll take it off altogether. Penalties will be a last resort, but I don't think they're needed in a small series we're holding just for fun

Is that okay with everyone?

I'm fine with limited damage.

I only mentioned switching to an external view as I've watched the start of the first race a few times now from diffrent cars plus a few diffrent views & when you can see a car is on your rear quarter on the extrnal view if you switch to an internal you cant see a thing. This also means its harder to take avoiding action for instance - if someone has out braked them self behind you & they maybe coming along side you a little too fast.

I am guilty of this myself as I race with the bonet view & I gave Mr Ant a hard nudge on the 2nd corner ( For this I must apologise! ) because although I knew roughly he was there I had no idea exactly where he was.

When I get a chance later I'm going to re run this track & maybe a prvious one using the extrnal view & see if that makes much diffrence to my lap times...

I must say, I don't recall any contact between us Spencer... No worries though.

I see what you mean with external, for the first couple of laps, what you describe is exactly what I do. I wait until I've settled into a groove with the other drivers and switch to the view I'm more familiar with, cockpit camera. I just wish the wing mirrors actually worked, they just don't point in the right direction. And some cars don't have a rear view mirror either, so it makes it even harder.

As mentioned in another post I use the normal chase view (not the wide one) where you usually have no rear view mirror, but in the left above corner of the HUD I can see how many meters my follower is away. I also can hear coming cars who wants to pass me. To see how far they are away I use the shown map and the right stick to look back. That works fine for me.
To change the view into the wide chase view needs a little bit to get used to. The steering reacts more sensible and angular what makes me feel unsafe for the first few minutes. So in my case it would damage more than that it helps.

I think as long as everyone is aware of the cars around them at the start, accidents should be minimal/none-existent.

We'll find out if anything is better this coming Friday, but for all we know it could just be a one-off. You could run the same race 10 times or more and have a different outcome each time.

I don't think there's any need to discuss this issue further though.

bluesky0870 wrote:As mentioned in another post I use the normal chase view (not the wide one) where you usually have no rear view mirror...

I found the far view a little bit difficult but got on ok with the chase view so I'm going to try this one out for a while...

Is having the RVM not an option that can be switched on/off for all views in the HUD menu? I've never really looked to be honest.

Mr Antt wrote:
Anyway, as for the blue SEAT in race 2 - It was a friend of somebodies, but sadly I've forgotten who. I figured I'd allow them to race with us and invite them to the club later. This person didn't complete the race anyway, so it's not something to worry about. If they wish to join in next week, and so on then they may need to look into their connection, (could be solved with a simple router off-on.) and of course have the official livery.

He was my friend, I sent him a message and advised him he'd be best to sit it out, as his PI was gonna be way lower. As for the connection issue, its just a crap connection, I used to live on a small island off the Scottish coast, the connections ropey at best, I got a maximum of 3 Mbps, and I was first on the line next to the telephone exchange so I was ok (no dedicated broadband there, adsl only), he comes from there and lives 4 miles from the exchange, so the LAG is unlikely to get better.

Oh I see, thanks for clearing that up. It's a shame he has difficulty with it. He's welcome to compete if he likes though

I have to agree with jim also, to damage off, I think it would make the races closer, we don't crash for fun but as I have found genuine accidents do happen, usually down to the limmited field of vision in my case and it can't be much fun for those who have been unlucky running with bad damage race after race.
Anyway I'm sure we will evolve as a group to a sweet spot which suits all.

Just my thoughts. As always happy to go with the majority.

I wont be at Silverstone tonight, Hope everyone has fun & dont forget to gift me the replays!

EighteeN O FivE wrote:I wont be at Silverstone tonight, Hope everyone has fun & dont forget to gift me the replays!

Will do buddy, don't worry. Shame you can't make it, but hope to see you next week!

stripeyboy has to work till 9 pm, he wants to join the 2nd race so maybe we have to have a break of 5 minutes more if it is ok for everyone.

Yep. Totally fine.

I did write in the info thread that if you miss the first race you join in for the second

He'll just have to try extra hard for more points

There seemed to be an improvement this evening, however having sat and had a chat with SOUL, Jim and Blue after the race, the decision has been made to turn damage off next week.

Whilst this evening ran much smoother, it's becoming increasingly unfair for innocent bystanders to be sent to the back of the field when they get caught up in a bit of rough driving. By taking damage off, it wont take anybody out of the race. Collisions can of course still be made, but they wont be as costly. This however does NOT mean you can take advantage of this. Naturally, if you're found to be abusing the fact that damage is off, you will be disqualified.

Congrats to everyone this evening though, some really great racing all through the field!

I've updated the results for you all, go take a look.

See you next week!

think its a wise decision
race 2 was pretty well wrecked for me and jim , i think fraser got caught up with someone and was sat in the middle of the track , i hit the back of his car trying to avoid him which spun him across the track and collected jim aswell who was right next to me , the momentum kept all 3 of us in coliision off onto the grass , i sustained 100% body/aero and 49% engine damage , jim also was heavily damaged and took the option to pit for repairs, i just managed to struggle home with jim homing in on me . I hope Fraser doesnt feel to bad about this as he was very apologetic after the incident , i dont have any issue with it and feel just as bad for fraser and jim .

[b]
still had great fun and looking forward to next week guys
cheers
Sim

Great fun again! The 1st race was so close with me and Soul, lap after lap we were bumper to bumper. Really enjoyed it.

The 2nd race was unfortunate, a little bump turned into a pile up I had to pit in as my engine/gear box/steering/suspension was totally wrecked.

Looking forward to Infinion, better put some practise in as its Souls faverite track and I have witnessed how quick he is around there!

Just catching up on the replays now thanks to Bluesky!

For the 1st race I was glued to the battle for 1st place between Soulrend & Jim - 11 laps of very entertaining close racing until the pit stops started. Good tactical decision by Jim to stay out & bang in some fast laps to gain a cushion & take the win!

What a great sprint race, shame about the little pile up at the begining though! There was a nice bit of perfectly timed overtaking from Soulrend to take the lead & eventually the win, a thrilling battle for 2nd place from a charging Mr Antt & Bleusky catching him up at the end for 3rd!

Great racing guys! I can't wait until the next round!