Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

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    Mr Antt
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    Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:32 am

    Hi guys,

    So as I mentioned we're getting our first official event underway soon, and what I'm interested to know is whether we're all happy to go with the SEAT Leon Supercup? I've got the tune sorted, and the paints are ready to be customised and sent out upon request.

    If we're all happy with the car choice, (bear in mind we can have more than one event at a time) then I can start drafting up a calendar, and getting the points system and prizes ready.

    Please let me know as soon as you can.

    Thanks,

    - Anthony.


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 6:50 pm


    More than happy with that, although unfortunately I be absent for a week starting on Friday.

    I'll enter every race I can though...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Rudyard77 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 9:40 pm

    Very happy with the Seat Leon Supercup idea. While the R classes are obviously exciting, fast cars, it often seems the case (to me anyway) that the most fun racing can occur in slightly slower cars (that are easier to keep under control). A class Leon's sound good to me.

    The only real problem that I forsee is that of continued attendance for each race by all participants. It will likely prove quite tricky getting everyone together in one lobby on multiple occasions (bearing in mind also the issue of time-zones - not all of us are in Europe, I think). Hopefully this can be minimised by advanced discussion on prospective suitable times prior to each 'meet'. If the series is to include points for race finishes (and therefore a mini league), then the absence of a member from one or two races would complicate (distort) this. I suppose one way to tackle it would be to just say, if you can't make a race, then you get zero points. Not the end of the World - its all just for fun anyway. However....

    .... some basic questions that need to be resolved are:

    - How many races will be in the series?
    - How long will each race be?
    - How many races for this series will be completed in one lobby session (just the one, or maybe three or four?)
    - Which tracks?
    - Points breakdown. Shall we award bonus points for fastest lap, most improved grid-to-end-of-race-position etc?
    - Grid ordering? Random, or do we have 'qualifying' - you could then have a rolling start where on the first lap people sort themselves into their asigned grid position for the start proper.
    - Any other possible randomisers/added spice such as double headers (two races on the same track where the start order for race two is the reverse finishing order from race one)
    - I guess replays should be saved just in case there is any confusion/forgetfulness over finishing positions/lap times!

    If, for example, the series were to be 9 or 12 races long, perhaps one way to get around the attendance issue would be to have three or four races for each meet. E.g. 12 races, comprising three lobby sessions of four races. This way, you only need to arrange three such sessions when we all try to be in attendance..... Just an idea!

    Might we also give some thought to basic 'On Track Rules' and likely racing incidents (crashes). Obviously one of the club's philosophies is on fair and friendly fun, without the agro/seriousness. Therefore, I'd like to think that we can all 'forgive and forget' any awkward track moments as just 'one of those things' - water off a ducks back etc. Hopefully we can all be respectful of each other on the track - if someone unintentionally ruins your race, perhaps just take a breath and try to laugh it off. To anyone who mistakenly happens to bump someone else off the track (of course these things can happen in a race), perhaps consider waiting to allow the other driver chance to reclaim the place ahead of you.

    Apologies for any nonesense in this post - just pouring my random thoughts onto paper here!

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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:01 pm

    Some good thoughts above!

    What about a regular race being 10-25 mins, with an end of season special - 3-5 laps at the 'Ring?

    The regular races could be 3 laps of a place like Suzuka Full, 4 of Hockenheim Club, 5 of Tsukba...

    We could have a Sprint Special, let's say a point-to-point, with 2-3 sprints per lobby session.

    Let's keep the ideas coming!


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:11 pm

    Can't fault you there Richard, that's very well thought out. These are all points which too, have crossed my mind. When we start getting the event/rules/points, etc written up (hopefully some time this week?) we'll be able to address such issues.

    As an answer to the point about tracks, I compiled a list of circuits last night that seem suitable enough for these cars. The top speed is around 140mph, so massively long straights are a no-go. It's mainly the tracks which have shorter or 'National' circuits, allowing for a good number of laps, but plenty of action. Tracks such as Le Mans Bugatti circuit, some really great sweeping turns there and the Hockenheim national. Tracks that have a good combination of straights and turns. Plus, with everyone driving the same nimble little race car the action should be plentiful.

    Lap numbers we can work out when compiling the track list properly, so we can have a roughly equal distance for each event. Some tracks are longer, so will probably have less laps, and the opposite for shorter tracks.

    I'm well aware people may have to miss races, this was present at the previous club Blue and myself were at also. I'm perfectly happy to narrow the list of circuits to allow for multiple lobbies.

    Before the point system can be fully worked out I'd like to get a sign-up sheet going to see who actually wants to enter, that way we can work out how certain points can be awarded. I do like the bonus points idea, so we'll definitely implement that.

    I think qualifying sessions would be cool, but it's whether everyone else is up for it. I thought for qualifying, if we set the race type to that event where people have to set the fastest lap to win, and we did maybe 4 or 5 laps, then the grid ordering could then be based on lobby points, and reversed for the second race? Which brings me to the point that ideally there would be two rounds for each circuit, the second with the reversed order. I don't know, these are just ideas. Failing that, we have the formation lap, or we skip qualifying all together.

    Replays can be saved no problem, I'm sure plenty of us are happy to do that. I can also grab a photo of the finishing order when we're done if that's any extra help.

    On track rules, I agree with totally. This is racing, and incidents happen. We all know that, so there's nothing wrong with some common courtesy and good manners when competing. As we always say, it's just for fun, no need to get worked up. If I push someone off the track, I always let them come back around me anyway, seems only fair Smile

    I didn't intend to answer those points, just started writing and couldn't stop really...

    So I am quite excited to get this series going, hopefully this time next week we can be holding our first event!

    - Anthony.


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:15 pm

    Ah yes, a v-max of 140 may be a bit of a problem at the 'Ring...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Rudyard77 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:17 pm

    Cosmetic or limited damage?

    Also, perhaps consider including a mandatory pitstop for certain races. Even if cosmetic damage is used - just to mix things up a little / add a little strategy.
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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:20 pm

    Limited or Full, an a pit stop sounds fun, what about a season end semi endurance race of about 40 mins?


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:22 pm

    Ben2012X wrote:Limited or Full, an a pit stop sounds fun, what about a season end semi endurance race of about 40 mins?

    I like the idea of that, depends where and how many, but that could work. One thing I miss from the older Forza games is endurance races, I was quite unhappy when they took them away Crying or Very sad

    Also, probably limited damage. Full might cause problems with accidents and stuff. Limited would be enough to either force a pit-stop and make up time, or limp to the end, would be fun I think. I like the pit-stop idea, depends on lap numbers though. For example, the GP2 series has a sprint and a feature race, the feature of course being longer with a mandatory pit-stop, so that's perhaps an option?


    Last edited by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:24 pm

    Same here... Definitely a mistake on their part, probably to make room for those god-awful Top Gear "bowling" events...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:24 pm

    The bowling was fun at first, as was autocross, now I just don't want to do them...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Guest on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:26 pm

    I've organised some racing series before:

    Here's the last one which is sinilar to the Seat Cup



    Here are the rules:

    Participants:
    Every club member is invited to take part in the series. Starting is free of charge without a payable fee.
    Possible new members can jump into the series at every point

    Car:
    Only usable car is the Seat Leon Supercup car in A- Class.
    Any tune is allowed as long as the car doesn’t exceed the PI of 600.


    Race length:
    Every race will be split into 3 heats of 8 laps.
    Between the heats are breaks of 5 minutes.

    Starting grid:

    The starting order will be sorted by lobby points:
    Winner of previous heat will start as last in following heat, 2nd as 2nd to last and so on.


    Points:
    Points will be given for every heat of a race day.

    1st: 15 points
    2nd: 12 points
    3rd: 10 points
    4th: 8 points
    5th: 6 points
    6th: 5 points
    7th: 4 points
    8th: 3 points
    9th: 2 points
    10th: 1 point

    Extra points will be awarded for the following:
    1 point for setting the fastest lap in a heat. A clean lap is worth more than a lap with triangle.
    1 for every leader in a heat awarded to each driver who is classified as the race leader (on crossing the start/finish line during the course of the race) during each heat. A driver can only earn this point once per heat, irrespective of how many times he or she has led that race.


    Calendar: The races start at 9pm GMT/ 10pm CET

    Mugello GP 3 heats 8 laps
    Twin Ring Motegi Full 3 heats 8 laps
    Maple Valley Full 3 heats 8 laps
    Silverstone GP 3 heats 8 laps
    Suzuka GP 3 heats 8 laps
    Sebring Full 3 heats 8 laps
    Bernese Alps 3 heats 8 laps
    Infineon long 3 heats 8 laps
    Catalunya GP 3 heats 8 laps
    Nordschleife 2 heats 3 laps


    I would prefer Damage on FULL to make sure everyone races clean and care about others and his own car. From my experience any other setting will end in crashing, war on the track and trouble between team members.



    Last edited by bluesky0870 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:30 pm

    24 laps of catalunya? I think al these races are quite long. If I may, can I propose we all use identical tunes?


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:32 pm

    Thanks for the example Blue, is that the same used for the Clio at you know where? Razz

    Of course certain things can be shuffled around, as I mentioned the cars may struggle on some of the longer tracks.
    As for the tune, that has been sorted, when sorting paints I'm numbers, the setup with be applied also.


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Guest on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:41 pm

    How will you assure identical tunes? Who will tell you that no one will tweak the settings slightly?
    A tune doesn't work on all tracks, so you can't use only one tune.
    Different people have different driving styles, some like oversteering cars, others understeering. So again you force drivers to race like you are used too!!! Same parts in all cars are ok, but not one tune for all!!!

    All races last between 1 hour and 1:15, so it is not too long for a racing series with one race a week.
    You play Forza or other games many hours a day, but 1 hour in a racing series is too long for you?


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:44 pm

    Did I say tune? Oops!
    I of course meant parts.
    The comp should be about fun and driver skill, rather than tuning skill.
    We could have a long track and a short track general tune though...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Ben2012X on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:47 pm

    Oh and I think a gentleman's agreement will cover the cheating...


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:47 pm

    Then what if I suggest we only allow certain upgrades to the car allowing people to set up as they please? Either that or we create setups to be added to a members storefront (free of course) this will prevent anybody making changes.

    I'm not sure how we'll work this one out, since, as Blue said - we don't all drive the same or like our cars set up the same.


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Rudyard77 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:57 pm

    bluesky0870 wrote:I would prefer Damage on FULL to make sure everyone races clean and care about others and his own car.

    I'm happy to race with damage set to full.
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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:58 pm

    Rudyard77 wrote:
    bluesky0870 wrote:I would prefer Damage on FULL to make sure everyone races clean and care about others and his own car.

    I'm happy to race with damage set to full.

    If people feel that way, then that's fine by me. I usually do anyway Smile


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Rudyard77 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:05 pm

    I usually race limited damage with the AI (highly annoying when they brake check you and wreck your engine), but for this series I have no problem with full damage. As said, it should make everyone aware of their own vulnerability and lead to slightly less aggression. As always, the key worry is the first corner of every race. Any race in the public hoppers tends to end in disaster at the first corner for half the field.

    Hopefully we can all exercise a little caution and mutual respect going into the first corner. Of course, there are still bound to be problems with 8 or more cars steaming in looking to hold position etc. One solution would be to have, say a 1 sec roll off delay on the grid. This would solve the first corner issue. However, then again, to be fair the start of the race is a good opportunity for people to try and gain a position by having a good launch. Maybe we could just give it a try and see how it goes with a regular start. I'll sit on the fence as usual and go with the consensus. Wink
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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:10 pm

    To be honest, i think if people use a little common sense, then there should be no reason for turn 1 pile-ups. If there's a gap, you're entitled to go for it, but rather than risking it and wrecking yours and others race, just hold back and wait for a more sensible opportunity.

    for example, turn 1 at Nurburgring GP, it's a tight right hand turn, and people always try to jump across the inside when there's clearly no room. Me, well I wait until either turn 3 or 4 before making overtakes like that, because there's more room, and less chance of an incident Razz


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Guest on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:19 pm

    After the start and by going into turn 1 I usually slow down and give away my position because I know I regain my position in the corner by overtaking damaged cars or those who are off the track. Very Happy
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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Mr Antt on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:20 pm

    Okay, double post I know but still.

    What I'm feeling is about 20 rounds, two rounds at each circuit we visit, totaling 10 circuits, simple maths Razz

    We have a race of around 15-20 laps for the first round, and one of roughly half the distance for the second. Much the like GP2 example I used earlier. Of course, depending on the circuit length, laps can be moved in either direction. Massive straights I think we can avoid for now, however I'll play around with the gearbox some more and see if I can find ideal settings for tracks with longer straights. Pit stops I'm definitely up for, as well as full damage, that's cool.

    When doing Rudyards Rally challenge, his races total about half an hour each, so I think if take that as a benchmark, add a shorter race distance for a second round, as well as a break in between, we can get about an hour of racing a week (if it works with peoples schedules, etc) and still have a really nice little competition going.

    So, what are peoples thoughts on that? It could either be that, or maybe 3 or 4 shorter rounds still totaling roughly the same time.

    I want to please everyone and have an event tghat everyone is happy to participate in. It'll be no good if people don't want to do this, that and the other because the whole thing just wont work, there will only be about 4 people taking part and it'll certainly be nowhere near as fun as it will if we can get about 12+ entering.

    - Anthony.


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    Re: Opinions On A SEAT Championship?

    Post by Guest on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:29 pm

    I don't mind on the heat/race length, the only thing I am begging for, is a break of five minutes between the heats to calm down, feed the cats, visit the toilet or wharever. But the most inportant point is to get a cigarette. Laughing

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